Are you are still conducting load development and shooting from a bench rest (formal Bench Rest competitors and similar shooters excluded)? You’re an idiot!
The folks at Guns America did a decent write up on an accuracy test with current factory rifles and ammunition.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/minute-of-angle-moa-accuracy-out-of-the-box/
Stop wasting your time at the bench rest! Unless your goal is to compete in formal Bench Rest tournaments or similar, the bench rest has almost no value for any type of shooting.
MOA Accuracy Out of the Box, Part 2 « Firearm User Network
May 06, 2012 @ 10:13:35
George Harris
May 06, 2012 @ 14:58:42
I agree with the statement if the shooter is a Master class shooter but anything less should verify equipment and ammo so they can put the blame for bad shots where it belongs.
John M. Buol Jr.
May 06, 2012 @ 15:01:59
Fair enough!
Of course, I’d argue that avoiding the benchrest and spending more time learning to shoot well from position will greatly help one become this Master class shooter.
bill price
May 06, 2012 @ 20:23:08
I’ve been an idiot more than once in the past 64+ years. Often with a firearm. Lucky for me it wasn’t about safety issues.
I have always liked to see what a firearm will do from a rest, before I see what I can do with it, and i shoot with shooting sticks just about any time I’ve got a rifle in my hand–and those rifles are almost always scoped. So lately I’ve taken to shooting with peep sights (aperture and globe) and I’m pleased to find that so long as i can see the target, I can shoot just about as well with a peep sight.
Problem is that with a peep sight, i can’t pick out a 2″ spot at 50 yards unless it’s surrounded by a lot of white space. Same goes for my metal squirrels (the airgun ‘field target’ variety). A plain old grey squirrel at 20 yards through a peep sight is just so much grey and if I were hunting the little nutters, I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between one end and the other. Still, it gives me a good feeling to know that I’m becoming competent in using iron sights if necessary, at least in situations where they work for me.
Now lately, I’ve begun to try the hardest of all shooting positions: standing on my hind legs with no visible means of support. I’ve studied the technique of squeezing only when on target, and slowly but surely, I’m progressing to where i can actually do ok from time to time. Better this week than last week. I’m hoping to get to a point where I won’t be embarrassed to show up at a silhouette match–maybe by the end of this year.
It’s been said that Matthew Quigley’s famous bucket shot can be reproduced by shooting a 1.75″ bucket at 55 yards (offhand, with iron sights). I’ve tried it. So far I haven’t been able to do it–but the day may come. When a person can do that, he’s earned bragging rights.
Stay well,
-bp
John M. Buol Jr.
May 07, 2012 @ 09:17:30
>> I have always liked to see what a firearm will do from a rest….
That is a sound approach. Sling or sandbag prone are rested, stable positions and a decent marksman shot will routinely shoot up to a field rifle’s mechanical precision from these. I know you already knew that, I’m just restating the point.
Bumming around with the various military Service Rifle teams I have not yet met a high level competitor that bothers with much load development work or uses a benchrest to prepare for matches and their accuracy standards are much greater than those hunters perched at the bench searching for a pet load.
George Harris
May 07, 2012 @ 10:13:03
A little personal experience… I was issued a supposedly “good rifle” from the USAR Team inventory with supposedly “good ammo” I shot it enough to get sight settings and went to a match in which I had a dismal performance. Shortly after I was able to put the gun in the machine rest at Devens and it was found that the gun wouldn’t group at all with any ammunition at 300 yds. The barrel of the supossedly “good rifle” was toast. Several months later with a new barrel and nothing else, I won the EIC Match at The Warrior Challenge. The gun was now X ring capable so I now knew if the shots weren’t in the middle all I had to do was look in the mirror for the reason.
It is important to have good equipment and to know your equipment is good. Then you can work on perfecting technique and consistency in delivering accurate shots with confidence.
Never any hate mail, just a different perspective.
Yours in Training!
George Harris
Colorado Pete
May 07, 2012 @ 13:57:41
Bill Price,
While you’re at it, learn to use a shooting loop sling (if you haven’t already). The M1907 GI leather loop sling, the green cotton(M1)/nylon(M14) GI web sling that replaced the 1907, or the modern “instant loop” Ching sling.
A good loop sling used properly will eliminate the support arm bicep muscle. If your support arm elbow is rested on something, you can go dead limp relaxed from support arm shoulder to fingertips, and the rifle will stay up by the sling. Some of the above-mentioned slings can do some other helpful things for you or be used in ways other than original intent to save on speed and be more versatile.
Bob Penhale
May 07, 2012 @ 14:10:43
Personally, I didn’t appreciate the “you are an idiot” line, even though I don’t fit the description.
Not even sure as to why it bothered me. Maybe because I typically get something positive from your posts.
I am active on a number of forums, but I have not come across one yet where nearly any comment can generate a lengthy personal battle between participants, often far more acrimonious than warranted. I guess I can understand it better now that I “felt it.”
Ah, the Human Condition….
John M. Buol Jr.
May 07, 2012 @ 14:12:17
Yeah, that was overly harsh and I apologize.
You’re right, a person shooting exclusively from the bench isn’t actually an idiot but rewriting it as “Such practice is less than optimum” or similar doesn’t have much zing.
Thanks for reading (and continuing to, I hope!)
John M. Buol Jr.
May 07, 2012 @ 14:36:24
@George Harris
>> It is important to have good equipment and to know your equipment is good.
True enough, however, I’d submit that as a skilled shooter, had you been able to train with that first lemon rifle beyond shooting it “enough to get sight settings” you would have certainly caught the problem.
With the exception of competitive shooters and others of similar skill, I almost always see people shooting from the bench exclusively. This is the majority approach seen in most shooting literature, print or otherwise. Finding a spot on the line to roll out your shooting mat and shoot from sling-supported positions makes you the lone, strange outcast. One range I visited strictly forbade all forms of position shooting, even slow fire, and required all shots be taken from a bench.
It might be useful for a shooting club to have a bench or two available for occasional testing but not for all shooting by all members all the time. When did typical American gun owners lose the ability to support a rifle with their bodies and still shoot reasonably well?