Why Competitive Shooters and Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) Practitioners have a Combat Advantage, and Why You should “Game it”!
This was written by “H.B.”, a 10 year infantry and special operations veteran with multiple deployments to OIF and OEF and published by Defense Review.
Real violence is not sporting; it is confusing, often grotesque, and characterized by intense physical effects upon combatants. In a real fight, the winner is often the individual or individuals who employ simple, effective maneuvers in a precise and deadly manner. But the application of these techniques in a fight can be quite difficult. Countless repetitions have to be performed for a gross motor skill, such as a punch, to be performed upon a resistant opponent. For a complex motor skill, such as marksmanship, thousands of repetitions are performed before an individual can utilize that technique against any sort of resistance. Therein lies the beauty of competition; competitive training does not dwell on tactics or mindset, but instead on the constant repetition of key skills. It is in this context that I believe that sporting events can function as a decisive training tool for martial-minded individuals.
In this article, I will discuss my opinions on competitive training and the sports I participate in, specifically MMA (mixed martial arts) and multi-gun shooting competitions. I understand and fully acknowledge that sports are not a panacea. Sports do not attempt to solve tactical problems or mindset issues that are potentially fatal in the real world. However, when a fight reaches the stages where preemption and tactical decision-making have failed, the quick, violent, application of effective techniques is called for. The greatest boon that competitive sports can bestow upon the combat community is the application of simple, proven, techniques in a resistant or unscripted environment.
Because marksmanship is a necessary skill-set for any warrior, and a difficult task to master, constant repetition and practice is required. Multi-gun competitions are unique in that they force a shooter to solve problems in an environment that is created by another person. This quick thinking (and shooting) lends itself to many tactical applications, as combat itself is usually characterized by individuals being forced to make a number of decisions under stress, in a compressed amount of time. Especially at CQB distances, the speed in which you engage a threat can be the difference between life and death, therefore a shooting sport that emphasizes speed and accuracy will help to improve a combatant’s survivability. It is my opinion that the skills gained in multigun have a close transfer to combative shooting techniques, and that most people who have some cognitive abilities will be able to utilize the benefits of what they have gained in competition, and apply it against an enemy in combat.
Hand-to-hand combat is a necessary skill for any warrior. Armies since the beginning of time have made it mandatory for soldiers to learn to fight empty handed. Mixed martial arts have revolutionized martial arts training, in that it allows a fighter to utilize full contact techniques that can easily incapacitate an opponent, with little risk of injury in training. Furthermore, it creates an environment where hand-to-hand combat training can be conducted in a productive manner, this safe environment can also be used to pressure-test ideas, and give fighters a realistic understanding of their capabilities. This is incredibly necessary for the modern combatant, because in a civilian context, many fights start at an extremely close range, and it is important for a fighter to be able to engage or disengage at this distance, depending on the tactical situation.
While it’s a common cliché in the tactical community that a fighter does not want to grapple with multiple opponents, that statement is also dependant on your opponents not being able to take you to the ground. Without some grappling training, it will be much easier for any semi-skilled thug to tackle you. But with even some very minimal time spent in a gym, your takedown defense will improve and some limited sparring with an untrained opponent will convince even the strongest non-believer in the value of mixed martial arts training.
Competitive martial sports have a solid place in the training regimen of a dedicated warrior. I understand that a warrior also must pursue a heavy strength and conditioning program, scenario training, force-on-force exercises, marksmanship drills, and many other tactical enterprises. He or she should also make time for marksmanship and combat sports, as they will further enhance their abilities. With that in mind, I recommend a few ideas that will help further a competitor and warrior in their sporting pursuits.
The first is to make sure you use techniques that work in a resistant or non-scripted environment, and pressure-test them. If you think a pistol retention technique will work better than the techniques you have learned previously, have a friend try to take a rubber gun away from you. You will find out very quickly whether you have control of your (dummy) weapon, or your friend is now pointing it at you.
The second is to use your actual kit, or something close to it. This one is self-explanatory. It’s of little use to shoot a custom STI pistol in competition if you are issued and carry a Glock.
The third piece of advice is to not worry about being a champion at the beginning; just enjoy what you are doing, and let the scores fall where they may. Competition will lay waste to many a large ego, so it’s best not to bring one.
The fourth is not to get discouraged and overwhelmed by the situation, remember that a 70% effective fight game that is based on competition is better than a 10% fight game that is based on Rambo movies.
The fifth and final piece of advice is just to enjoy. Enjoyment is the key to the continued pursuit of a task, so find something you like and keep after it.
There is some talk of a timer [as used in shooting competition] being a stimulus that induces stress. I believe tactically oriented shooters should treat the buzzer as an indicator of a lethal threat. This could be a punch, gunshot, or an IED blast; it’s simply a “go” signal.
A 3-gun stage indicates a worst-case scenario, where a shooter has no cover and has to engage multiple threats, this happens in CQB fights.
MMA clinch. The best way to not have to fight on the ground in a weapons based environment is to be able to stop takedowns, and the best way to learn how to stop takedowns is to have a skilled opponent attempt to take you down. The worst situation an unarmed combatant can be in is one with limited mobility, where an attacker has the initiative.
John Veit
Mar 02, 2012 @ 21:26:08
If you are going to be shot and killed, there is an 80% chance that it will happen at less than 21 feet.
Also gunfights are rare bird occurances, so you should learn and practice a shooting method that is instinctive, easy to learn and retrain, and works at CQ distances.
If you are in a high risk occupation such as an armored guard carry bags of money, you should practice often and at distances where you probably will be confronted, that is close enough to grab your bags of money.
And if you are a homeowner, practice at your room sized distances.
Keep it simple, straight foward, and basic.
Here’s a link to my video: EZ Point Shooting with a pistol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=511eT8Iwvd0&
Here’s most of the text of an e-mail that i am sending to most Police departments across the US as long as their link on Officer.com is up to date. Lot’s arn’t, but I’m not in charge of that. Big job, but then someone should do it to my way of thinking. Mr. Buol will post the main article mentioned here in the future.
……………….
For 22 years an Officer has been shot and killed every week, and no one cares.
In Afghanistan, 1,700+ US troops have been killed in the past ten years, and thousands have been injured. And billions and billions of dollars have been spent on the war.
In the US, 1,100+ Police Officers have been shot and killed in the past 22 years, and thousands upon thousands have been injured. To me that means there’s a real war going on in the United States, and nobody seems to care.
Obviously, Police are continuing to be trained in an impractical method of shooting for use in life or death close quarters situations that by its results in combat, is a disaster as more than 80% of shots by Officers miss.
Regardless of the accuracy of opponents, a hit rate of less than 20% is just unacceptable when more effective shooting methods are available.
A less than 20% effectiveness rate for anything, much less a shooting method to use in a life threat situation where there is the greatest chance of your being shot and killed, would result in legal action against those who perpetrate and teach such fraudulent nonsense in any other consumer related product area. It is akin to knowingly installing faulty air bags in cars that only work 20% of the time.
And the result is that Police Officers have been shot and killed at the rate of 50+ per year, and thousands have been injured year in and year out, for 22years. That carnage is continuing, and no one seems to care. Makes me both sad and mad.
Here’s a link to an article I wrote in 2000 on this situation. What was true then, is still true in 2012. http://www.pointshooting.com/1asaucer.htm
Here is a link to an article on: How You Will Shoot In A Real CQB Situation. http://www.pointshooting.com/1adetro.htm
And here is a link to one on: Shooting Distance And Survival. http://www.pointshooting.com/1aquals.htm
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 03, 2012 @ 07:47:25
I’m just posting an opinion concerning competition and its effects on tactical training, as written by a ten year infantry and special operations veteran with multiple deployments to OIF and OEF who also happens to be a competition shooter and finds value in it.
We welcome multiple view points, including your view point. Sometimes those view points don’t agree, so our advice is to test ideas objectively and let the results fall where they may.
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David B. Monier-Williams
Mar 12, 2012 @ 12:50:32
Once again I’d recommend Kent Turnipseed’s technique. He’s the only firearms trainer in the US to be inducted into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame because of his technique which is based on those arts. Check out his book, “The Martial Art of the Gun.” BTW he’s also used his technique in real life situations.
http://www.turnipseedstance.com/.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 14, 2012 @ 11:36:01
@ David B. Monier-Williams
>> Once again I’d recommend Kent Turnipseed’s technique.
Whatever gives measurable results. I have not yet seen any empirical data on skill measurements accomplished by Turnipseed instructors or students. You are welcome to publish that data here.
>> He’s the only firearms trainer in the US to be inducted into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame
How does one become inducted into the Martial Arts Hall of Fame? What are the parameters?
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David B. Monier-Williams
Mar 14, 2012 @ 14:55:47
John, you’ve only got to go to Kent’s website, view his three short videos and the much longer 20 min one to see for yourself. For in depth material buy and read Alan Egusa’s book, based on Kent’s technique, “The Martial Art of the Gun,” I think you can afford it.
John, you’ve been invited to come and stay with me and judge for yourself…you’ve declined each time. The invitation still stands.
Kent and his Associate Alan Egusa have between them over 90 years of Martial Arts in many of its different forms.
Kent was given The Living Legend Award, Kent was honored for being the innovator who developed the Martial Art of the Gun. He is the only Firearms Instructor ever to be inducted. As to the Martial Arts Hall of Fame’s parameters, check for yourself.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 14, 2012 @ 18:04:19
>> you’ve only got to go to Kent’s website, view his three short videos and the much longer 20 min one to see for yourself.
I’ve seen the videos.
>> you’ve been invited to come and stay with me and judge for yourself…you’ve declined each time.
Yes, because I’ve seen the videos.
>> As to the Martial Arts Hall of Fame’s parameters, check for yourself.
I did and found nothing defining how one earns this award.
http://www.mastershalloffame.org does not list any criteria on how nominees are selected or awards are determined. http://www.mastershalloffame.org/content/mhof-inductee-list-2010 lists Kent Turnipseed as a “Living Legend” recipient but not what that means. http://turnipseedstance.com/kentinducted.htm gives no information, either.
After winning high overall pistol at AFSAM, an international shooting match, several of my friends jokingly started calling me “World Champion of the World.” They even created an “official” certificate with PowerPoint that looks just as convincing as Mr. Turnipseed’s.
My “title” was a friendly joke between buddies because I won a match. I still don’t know what Mr. Turnipseed did to get his.
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David B. Monier-Williams
Mar 15, 2012 @ 12:15:03
John, let’s deal with Kent’s award. He started in the Martial Arts at age fourteen and has risen to Black Belt level in several of them having been taught mainly by Orientals, recognized Masters in their fields. It was other Masters, who sat on the board, that “bestowed ” Master Status” on Kent Turnipseed as developer of the Turnipseed Technique. His peers recognized that he’s been the only one to take the Martial Art to a different and higher level…that with a gun.
Kent was an early shooting member of the “Southwest Pistol League,” and has competed in most of the recognized types of competitions. The main reason that Kent doesn’t advise competition is taken from an example where a Law Enforcement Officer who when confronted by a Nasty went into the surrender position. Lucky for him he was wearing a vest as a round in the chest really hurts. He eventually killed the Nasty and immediately gave up competition….I can’t imagine why, can you?
As you train so shall you shoot!
Though most of his trainees are civilians, Kent has trained Law Enforcement Officers, SWAT, SAS, and Delta etc. He even found and trained a humble SEAL.
“Whatever gives measurable results. I have not yet seen any empirical data on skill measurements accomplished by Turnipseed instructors or students. You are welcome to publish that data here.”
Let me share with you his “empirical results.” His knows of eight “fights.” The first person, a man, fighting in the Sand Box took out six in one day. It’s reasonable to suppose that additional kills were to his credit while he was still playing in the sand. Of the rest, one was an attempted car-jacking, the other an inner city incident, all the rest were home invasions. Seven were men, one female. All six Nasties were killed the seventh a paraplegic. One of the people was Kent and in all none were injured. There were no Law Enforcement Officers.
The Police asked the female in the above home invasion, ‘ Why did you shoot the guy five times?” she replied, “Because the fucking gun didn’t have any more bullets.” She was using a revolver.
You do the math.
Now I have some “empirical data” that you and your other trainers need to show me. Show me your videos that accomplish all that is in Kent’s video.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 16, 2012 @ 09:19:59
>> let’s deal with Kent’s award.
I’m glad his own peer group thinks highly of him. What other marksman-trainers did the board consider for this recognition and what was their criterion for selecting Mr. Turnipseed over the others (if there were any others)?
>> Kent was an early shooting member of the “Southwest Pistol League,” and has competed in most of the recognized types of competitions.
What sort of classifications or significant match wins did he accomplish?
>> The main reason that Kent doesn’t advise competition is
… based on one story?
>> He eventually killed the Nasty
Oh, so he actually won the day. Most “games’ll getcha killed” tales end with the nameless person, victimized by USPSA/IDPA-induced training scars, being killed. Of course, I guess learning a proper Turnipseed stance makes you bullet proof and incapable of human mistakes, provided you aren’t tainted with any success in competitive shooting.
Hey, Mr. Turnipseed participated in competition…. How did he “untaint” himself?
>> As you train so shall you shoot!
True. Set up your training and competitions to mirror how you want to shoot. Anyone claiming to be an instructor can structure an event, be it training or competition, to encourage good habits without incurring training scars. The LEO in your story would have eliminated that alleged training scar by particpating in events that had varying start positions (interview position, hands at sides, hands at chest level, jazz hands or whatever you like.)
>> Let me share with you his “empirical results.”
This is anecdotal, not empirical, evidence. Significantly more students of other schools have won more fights than this.
Since the inventions of firearms there have been countless theories and approaches to launching projectiles from them and hitting targets, adversaries and/or animals on purpose. Kent Turnipseed throws yet another approach on this pile. That’s great! He and his students are welcome to shoot however they like. Other people with different ideas may do something different and I’m OK with that, too. It’s one of the reasons I publish every article you’ve sent me and do the same for others.
That’s why I like competition. Shoot however you like. I’m just measuring where the bullets end up and how much time it took to get them there. Superior technique will always yield superior measurable results. Turnipseed practitioners are welcome to attend any event and measure their approach against what other people are accomplishing.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 16, 2012 @ 11:53:25
>> Kent has trained SWAT, SAS, and Delta etc.
And here is what other spec ops folks think….
https://firearmusernetwork.com/2009/07/15/tactical-training-delta-force/
The author of the article I posted above these comments, who is a 10 year infantry and special operations veteran with multiple deployments to OIF and OEF, has his take on things as well.
Multiple view points and they don’t all agree. I guess people will just have to weigh the evidence and make up their own minds.
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David B. Monier-Williams
Mar 16, 2012 @ 13:52:40
“What other marksman-trainers did the board consider for this recognition and what was their criterion for selecting Mr. Turnipseed over the others (if there were any others)?”
Please, re-read my statement and you might like to re-think your question.
“The main reason that Kent doesn’t advise competition is
… based on one story?”
Hardly. Reading between the lines is required.
“Of course, I guess learning a proper Turnipseed stance makes you bullet proof and incapable of human mistakes, provided you aren’t tainted with any success in competitive shooting.”
The Turnipseed Technique doesn’t impose any artificial scenarios which can lead to inherent bad habits that can get you killed.
“The LEO in your story would have eliminated that alleged training scar by participating in events that had varying start positions (interview position, hands at sides, hands at chest level, jazz hands or whatever you like.)”
If the cop wasn’t wearing his vest, the alleged training scar, he would have been empirically dead.
“This is anecdotal, not empirical, evidence.”
The only people that can give you your, empirical evidence” are those “fights” done by cops, civilians are not likely to care how many shots were fired nor do they have access to the police reports. Nonetheless ALL 12 assailants are “anecdotally and empirically” DEAD and the other wishes he was.
Again, I have some “empirical data” that you and your other trainers need to show me. Show me your videos that accomplish all that is in Kent’s video. Just show me your video. Just show me your video.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 16, 2012 @ 14:45:41
Because so few have heard of you or are willing to pay attention, I have not found anyone bothering with the tricks demonstrated in Mr. Turnipseed’s video. These feats are similar in nature and of a higher skill level.
Taran Butler point shooting demo
Taran Butler point shooting at a USPSA match (yes, you can do that.)
Readers are encouraged to view a Turnipseed point shooting demo and make their own decisions.
http://turnipseedstance.com/videos/hipshoot.wmv at http://turnipseedstance.com/
Todd Jarrett shooting on the move in a similar manner demonstrated by the Turnipseed folks. Note his comment about the first attempt…..
Jerry Miculek
Ben Stoeger El Presidente
Production (Beretta), 3.78 seconds
http://benstoeger.com
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=841341607847861912
Jake DiVita El Presidente
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 16, 2012 @ 15:15:39
This is the part of the conversation where you say, “Those shooters are out of balance” or something.
>> Just show me your video. Just show me your video.
Just go win a match. Just go win a match. Or earn a high classification or perform to any standard that others might recognize. Or convince others why they should be shooting milk jugs and lath instead.
You are free to shoot however you like, as is everyone else. Write up some more articles, send them my way and I’ll publish them even though you and Mr. Turnipseed have never extended the same courtesy to me.
Maybe some of my readers will find value in what you preach. Good for you!
Others may not. Oh well. If your approach is truly superior you’ll have no problem beating them at their own game and people will eventually turn your way.
I’ll even publish your articles to help you along the way. You don’t have to convince me of anything because I’m already agreeing to publish your stuff as well as other people’s stuff, too. Gosh, I’m such a nice guy! :)
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David B. Monier-Williams
Mar 17, 2012 @ 10:47:45
John, nice try…close but no cigar.
John, I’m not sure, but I don’t think that the Martial Arts are based on tricks. Kent Turnipseed was given his status as Master for developing his Technique based on those Arts.
The essence of Kent’s video with the pistol is at close range from the hip and in full retention and on the move as well as on the ground. Additionally, he uses the same stance with the exception of the position of the hands with both shotgun and 7.62 rifle in full auto. The concept of using one technique for long arms and side arms, while still making recoil a non-issue, is a Martial Arts and a KISS concept. Kent is the only one who’s done this…others have tried and failed.
The ability to stand on one foot indicates to yourself that you’re in balance, it also indicates the ability to move, still in the stance, up and downstairs. The man in the first video using the Isosceles has hunched shoulders and is leaning forward. The raised leg with foot behind is a counter weight, but I don’t think it’s possible to use the stairs in that position.
When it comes to tricks some people might say that Mike Miculek’s abilities with a revolver are tricks, but I wouldn’t say that. Mike has a fantastic ability with a revolver that no else can match or even come close to. He is a professional shooter. He expends between 50,000 and 100,000 rounds a year to keep up his abilities. Police Depts. don’t have this privilege, let alone the average Jane/Joe Doe. Whereas, Kent’s abilities are taught to all his students male and female alike, anyone can learn them without the enormous expenditure of time, energy, ammunition and money.
By the way, Kent shoot about 2000 rounds a year and that’s rifle, pistol and shotgun combined to maintain his level of proficiency.
Todd does show great abilities with a handgun while moving….., however when firing on the move at close range and parallel to the targets its not from the hip, unlike the person in Kent’s video. His other moves are at a distance. He too uses a different technique when addressing a shotgun as well as shooting between 50,000 to 100,000 rounds of pistol a year.
Taran Butler, another professional shooter expending thousands of rounds a year, accomplishes his feat very well but it’s not from the hip and in touching distances would be disarmed and/or killed. Kent and Alan Egusa’s demo are from the hip and are in full retention as well as on the move. In fact, many have tried to disarm them and failed.
El Presidente is fast furious and accurate, but has nothing to do with Kent’s video.
If you can’t shoot from the hip while moving, shoot while going up and down stairs, shoot from the ground, you’re not being realistic or relevant to the real world.
You have shown some accomplishments by top shooters two professionals, but they have nothing to do with Kent’s video.
So it’s back to the drawing board. This time with a pistol at close quarters from the hip in retention and moving, also on the ground….you know… under a car. As for shotgun, using slugs and 00 Buck on one foot and in a chair with both feet off the ground, as well as on the ground and with a rifle in 7.62 or larger in full auto on one leg and in a crouch all as shown on Kent’s video.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 18, 2012 @ 09:08:57
Without a published standard and objective means to measure skill we’re stuck with useless, subjective assessments.
I don’t care how someone looks. Instead, I just record the result based on some yardstick (target size, distance, elapsed time, etc.) and let the numbers dictate what good, better, best is. If a technique is “wrong” or “bad” but shooters consistently produce high measurable results with it, then maybe it isn’t so wrong or bad.
Regardless, I’ve posted links to the Turnipseed videos along with others. I’ll let each reader decide which videos show displays of superior skill. The links to your site will let them contact your folks if they see potential value with the Turnipseed approach.
>> El Presidente is fast, furious and accurate, but has nothing to do with Kent’s video.
Agreed.
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