The following guest article was written and submitted by John Veit.

We welcome a variety of points of view on the subjects of shooting and marksmanship. Test them objectively on the range and let the results fall where they may.

Sturm, Ruger VP and General Counsel Slams P&S
by John Veit


I recently sent Sturm, Ruger a letter about licensing them to produce my US Patented Point and Shoot Index Finger Rest: # 6023874.

A copy of my letter to them and their response can be found on the full article on this subject on my site. Here’s a link to it:

The Sturm, Ruger response included more than just standard “thanks but no thanks” language.

It contained language that is often used by those who have a definite lack of knowledge about close quarters life or death shooting situations, and the literature, studies and stats on them that are readily available.

Be advised that I like Sturm, Ruger. I have contacted them in the past, and they have always treated me fine. Also, they were nice enough to make a response to my inquiry, while I have not heard back from other gun makers.

So then what’s the rub?

Well IMHO, the language in the letter needs to be addressed and in a wide open and public way, as the issue at hand is one of life and death self defense close quarters armed encounters.

It is in those situations, where there is the greatest chance of you being shot and/or killed. According to the stats, if you are going to be shot and/or killed, there is an 80% chance that it will happen at less than 20 feet.

To do nothing, would be to accept old dogma and the status quo in terms of training and the effective use of guns in close quarters self defense situations.

Far from being acceptable, given studies, stats, and recent scientific investigations and inquiries, they are an unmitigated disaster.

Here’s the language from the letter.

“While your concept certainly is interesting, we believe it presents many challenges for shooters, including holstering the device and using the middle finger to pull the trigger, which is unnatural, contrary to training, and significantly reduces control, which can be problematic for recoil-prone pistols of large calibers.”

And here are my thoughts about that.

First, guns are made for killing, and pistols are made for close quarters killing. So it seems to me that if there was/is a means or a way for a gun maker to make guns more effective in that regard, it would be grossly negligent not to do that. As to not make that means or way available to a customer/user, would increase the chance of that customer/user being shot and/or killed.

I am not calling for a changeover in all of the guns any gun maker produces. It seems reasonable to me that a simple and innovative first step forward, with one or a just few products, would not upset the current apple cart. But it could lead to new and profitable programs of gun and accessory manufacturing and sales.

The Point and Shoot Index Finger Rest and the P&S shooting method provide a shooter with both a means and a method for fast, accurate, and instinctive shooting at close quarters in good light or bad, and even when the sights can not be used due to time or other situational constraints. And effective results are not dependant on your meeting the “must be met” requirements of traditional marksmanship. Also, little if any training is needed for effective use and maintenance.

Here is a link to a brief on P&S.


As to training….

As to training, whatever training has been or is being provided, is certainly open to question as to both the competency of the gun trainers who provide it, and the practicability and effectiveness of methods taught.

For example, the recognized hit rate in close quarters self defense armed encounters is less than 20%. As such, it is glaringly obvious that Police and others are being trained in impractical and ineffective method/s of shooting for use in life or death close quarters armed encounters.

A less than 20% effectiveness rate for anything, much less a shooting method to use in a life threat situation where there is the greatest chance of your being shot and killed, would result in legal action against those who perpetrate and teach such fraudulent nonsense in any other consumer related product area. It is akin to knowingly installing faulty air bags in cars that only work 20% of the time.

In Afghanistan, 1,700+ US troops have been killed in the in the past ten years, and thousands have been injured. And billions and billions of dollars have been spent on the war.

In the US, 1,100+ Police Officers have been shot and killed in the past 22 years, and thousands are injured each year. To me that means there’s a real war going on in the United States, and nobody seems to care or do much if anything about it. Here’s a link to an article I wrote about the situation in 2000. What was true then, is still true now (2012).

It is a mystery to me why gun makers, the FBI, Police certifying bodies, and Trainers continue to encourage training that has been proven not to be used in self defense close quarters armed encounters, and as such, sets Police and others up to be shot or killed.

Not so long ago, those who were shot and/or killed were blamed for being shot and/or killed due to the bizarre notion that they must not have trained enough in traditional shooting (which has never been found to be effectively used in close quarters armed encounters).

It may come as a shock to some, but after a hundred + years of Sight Shooting being taught for self defense use in close quarters armed encounters, there are no pics or videos of Sight Shooting being used effectively in such a situation.

Here’s a link to an article that shows how you will shoot in a real CQB situation.

And here’s one on shooting distance and survival.

Here’s a quote from a Doctor’s editorial in the Seattle Times on 3/23/12 that was about the danger of smoking and doing something proactive about that.

I have taken the liberty of replacing the word “tobacco” with the words “bad gun training”.

“Let there be no doubt here. Bad gun training is killing our patients, our colleagues, our friends and our loved ones. If we do nothing about that, we become part of the problem.

“And if we truely care for people, we must step forward to help them — even if they don’t always want our help.

To quote Martin Luther King Jr. “Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.””

“Bad gun training matters. People matter.”


As to using the middle finger on the trigger….

As to using the middle finger on the trigger being contrary to training, it surely was and still shouldn’t be used with the 1911 or any other pistols with the same design as the 1911.

Due to the design of the slide stop of the 1911, the first Military manual on the 1911 as well as several others which were published in later years, included a prohibition against shooting the 1911 with the middle finger.

If that was done, the index finger which would be extended along the side of the gun, and it could/can depress the slide stop pin with firing, and jam the gun.

Here’s the quote from page 12 of the first manual on the 1911 which recognizes that shooting method, but cautions against using it with the 1911.

“3. The trigger should be pulled with the forefinger. If the trigger is pulled with the second finger, the forefinger extending along the side of the receiver is apt to press against the projecting pin of the slide stop and cause a jam when the slide recoils.”

That same cautionary language, or language that is very similar to it, was repeated in other military manuals published in later years. Those that I have found are dated: 1912, 1915, 1917, 1918, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1929, and 1941.

Here’s a link to more on the design of the 1911 which I consider to be seriously if not fatally flawed.

The prohibition against using the middle finger to pull the trigger on the 1911, which was included in a variety of manuals over a wide span of time, establishes that using the index finger along the side of a gun and the middle finger to pull the trigger, was a well known and recognized method of shooting.

And here’s what the US Army says about using the index finger to aim with in the US Army Field Manual 3-23.35: Combat Training With Pistols M9 AND M11 (June, 2003).

“Everyone has the ability to point at an object….

“When a soldier points, he instinctively points at the feature on the object on which his eyes are focused. An impulse from the brain causes the arm and hand to stop when the finger reaches the proper position.

“When the eyes are shifted to a new object or feature, the finger, hand, and arm also shift to this point.

“It is this inherent trait that can be used by a soldier to rapidly and accurately engage targets.”

IMHO, any gun has a faulty design if it denies a shooter the option of using any practical and workable means/method of shooting it accurately, as that shooter is more likely to be shot and killed than one who has that option available to him or her.

As to the 1911’s faulty design, the sad fact of the matter is that it could have been fixed easily as with the Russian Tokarev. And simple logic says that the fault which prevented the use of a practical, accurate, and effective aiming and shooting method that can be used in most all environmental conditions, was directly connected to countless numbers of injuries and deaths to members of US Forces during its 70+ year reign as the only and standard issue sidearm of US forces.


P&S is not a concept….

Here are links to pics of a Ruger P95 and a target I used in a 2004 test. The target shows that very good results can be achieved using the index finger for aiming and the middle finger for firing.

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Note the hole in the P&S Index Finger Rest. I thought that would be OK and keep my finger away from the slide stop pin, which I believe is of the same design as the 1911. With firing, my index finger must have depressed it some, as I had two jams while firing. I usually shoot 100 rounds. Over the years, I have tested a wide variety of pistols which did not have that slide stop design, and had no problems.

Far from being a concept, the target above shows that P&S is an effective means of shooting fast and accurately at close quarters.

That is a fact and can be proved by most anyone who has a gun of most any type, and with the use of a small amount of initiative. Basically you place your index finger straight along the side of the gun, point it at your target, and pull the trigger with your middle finger.

Just point-n-pull, point-n-pull.

Of course, common sense and safe gun handling practices should be used with all types of guns.

Here is a link to some of my gun tests with pics of the guns and targets used. Also, there are links on my site to YouTube videos of me using P&S at the range, while moving and shooting, and shooting at and hitting a string of aerial targets (pop cans tossed in the air), using P&S.


As to the grip…..

In CQB situations according to the literature, you will have a crush grip on your gun.

So, if your index finger is used on the trigger, your thumb will press against the gun and push it over and the gun will twist down and around to the left. And your middle, ring and little fingers also twist and pull the gun down and to the left. And your shots, like those in close quarters armed encounters, will go low and left.

On the other hand if your middle finger is used on the trigger, the gun will be held in the strong and natural pincer of the thumb and index finger, and the ring and little fingers will add to the tenacity of the grip.

If you use a crush grip or squeeze the begeebers out of the gun, all you will do is strengthen the strong and level shooting platform the grip provides.

Also the middle finger is longer than the index finger, so those with smaller hands can more readily access the trigger. And the middle finger is stronger than the index finger, and also pulls back straighter in the hand which makes for improved accuracy. The gun bore will also sit lower in the hand for improved recoil control. And when the index finger is extended (along the side of the gun), that helps to lock the wrist which helps with recoil control.

Here’s a link to a digest of Walter J. Dorfner’s paper on his experimenting with and development of what I call P&S. Walter was the long time lead firearms instructor for the Vermont SP. Walter retired and passed away shortly after his retirement.



As to holstering, here is a pic of a gun with an index finger holster in a holster that need only a minor modification to accommodate it. With guns with attached lights and the like. The past practice of having one holster for all guns of the same caliber, is no longer practical or realistic.
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One Gun accessory maker has incorporated my P&S Index Finger Rest in its stock that houses the Ruger 10/22….

That was done without my licensing that. More info on that is in the full article on this subject that is on my site.