I’m a writer and, while doing some research, I found your blog.
I would like to ask a few questions regarding marksmanship qualifications and nomenclature.
I came across a lot of articles and questions on the whole marks men, sharp shooter and expert differences and read your article on the NRA classification. That was very interesting and enlightening. I also found a lot of references out there to snipers.From a qualification perspective, what’s the difference between snipers and expert sharpshooters? I wasn’t able to find anything conclusive on that.
– Chris Almeida
FM 23-10 is the previous US Army sniper manual with qualification course
pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/MILITARY/united_states_army_fm_23-10 – 17_august_1994.pdf
I have a print copy of the current update but haven’t found it in digits yet.
Current US Army rifle qual
FM 3-22.9
http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/fm3_22x9.pdf
Both quals are on RETS “pop up” targets. Scoring is hit or miss on full size, usually E-type (19 inch wide and 36-39 inch tall) humanoid silhouettes and rarely assess hit quality, unless done on a rare LOMAH range (LOcation Miss And Hit) range.
Electronic scoring has been widely used internationally (since 1984 in Olympic and World Cup events) and is fairly common in Europe. The Army Reserve team has Suis-Ascor units for training. Big Army or the Marine Corps doesn’t bother.
Basic rifle qual is a series of target exposures, one or two at a time, averaging about five seconds per shot. The shooter is already in position, aimed in and waiting for targets that he/she knows where and when they will appear. A hit any where is full value. The furthest shot is 300 meters but that accounts for six out of 40 shots. Most are closer and a consistent 5-6 MOA group will score “expert” consistently (90% or 36×40). A passing score is 58% (23×40.)
Sniper qual is similar with targets going out to 700 meters. The difference is the sniper student is given a rudimentary course on basic ballistics and environmental effects (most Soldiers are not), uses an accurized rifle (M24 or M110) with a 10x optical sight (usually a 3.5-10x or fixed 10x by Leopold), shoots from rest (bag or bipod) and has a spotter with a 20-30x spotting scope watching mirage and trace. Missed shots can be made up for half score (5 instead of 10 points) and 70% overall passes.
Confirm all this in the Army publications I linked you too. Yes, they suck that bad.
—
Fast X,
John Buol
Mailing address:
14439 NW Military s108 p410
San Antonio TX 78231
John Tate
Mar 02, 2014 @ 10:23:00
“Lightfootmilitia” led to BS site, but FM 23-10 was at several others, e.g.,
Click to access united_states_army_fm_23-10%20-%2017_august_1994.pdf
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 02, 2014 @ 10:25:49
Link was corrected. Thanks!
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John Tate
Mar 02, 2014 @ 10:26:55
Have you ever competed in “Rattle Battle”? (National Trophy Infantry Team Match) I see your site has an example from 2011
Ah, what a beautiful sight! “Rapid fire at 600 yards!”
My Navy team (I was captain/coach) took a bronze place medal in ’85.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 02, 2014 @ 10:28:04
I’ve shot all the HP/ATC/CMP courses of fire but never with a team at Perry.
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Paul Mazan
Mar 02, 2014 @ 10:29:01
I may be mistaken but the way I read this gentleman’s question he is asking where the sniper classification fits into the NRA Highpower classifications. You and I know the NRA doesn’t have a “Sniper” classification but he appears to be trying to find it.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 02, 2014 @ 10:35:37
Very good point. There is no “sniper classification.” I took the question as a general comparison of skills needed to pass the marksmanship portions of a sniper course versus skill classifications found in formal competition.
Current rules specifically allow a currently-issued sniper’s rifle:
3.3.2 NRA Any Sight Match Rifle/Tactical Rifle—
Same as NRA Match Rifle Rule 3.3 except there is no restriction as to sights. The following restrictions will apply:
(a) No person firing and any sight rifle under 3.3.2 will be allowed to
compete with any other group of shooters who are also firing. A
competitor using an any sight rifle under Rule 3.3.2 will only be
eligible for awards in their own division.
(b) Bipods may be attached but not utilized. Ammunition will be restricted
to no larger than .35 caliber.
(c)Competitors may use a service rifle equipped with optic sights to
compete under this rule. Competitors using service rifles described
in Rules 3.1(c) and 3.1(d) may remove the carry handle to allow
mounting of the optic sight.
Click to access hpr-book.pdf
http://competitions.nra.org/official-nra-rule-books.aspx
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Ted A. Sames
Mar 02, 2014 @ 15:30:41
The real question should be, “What is the difference between a Benchrest Competitor and a Precision Rifleman (Sniper)?”. Most shooters claim to be snipers because they shoot accurately off the bench or in a prone position. Shooting precisely is just the start for a sniper…there’s many attributes that are needed for a true sniper: Patience-being able to not move a muscle for hours, waiting for the correct time to take a shot…Woodscraft: Being comfortable in a wilderness, be it in an urban setting or in the woods…Camouflage: Blending into the environment and being able to move without being seen. Observation Skills: Being able to spot slight movements in the field.
Yep: The first criteria? Is the person a born hunter? Does he hunt? Is he successful? People send $T of dollars for sniper guns and equipment but would never consider “getting dirty” in the woods. Show me a person that is willing to stalk a squirrel…be motionless…and take one head shot at 75 to 100 yards with a 22 LR or 22 Mag…and I’ll show you the makings of a sniper. Or, a bow hunter that successfully takes a deer every season.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Mar 02, 2014 @ 15:51:06
I answered the question that was actually asked: “From a qualification perspective, what’s the difference between snipers and expert sharpshooters?” Chris Almeida, a writer doing research, was specifically interested in shooting specifics needed to pass a sniper marksmanship test compared to formal competition shooting classifications having “…read [my] article on the NRA classification…”
So I gave a brief overview of what actual military rifle and sniper qualifications entail along with links to published manuals detailing the courses, as opposed to fanciful opinion avoiding the question.
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