Gunfighters I Have Known
And Why They Are Still Around To Tell Their Tales.
by Bob Kolesar
Read more: http://gunsmagazine.com/gunfighters-i-have-known/
During my time as both a cop and soldier, I was fortunate to know many men (and a few women) who experienced close-quarters combat or gunfights with armed criminals. Some were just lucky they survived; others trained constantly, were mentally tough and prepared daily for what they considered an inevitable encounter.
The four men we’ll be looking at are all veterans of multiple shootings and firefights. They are, as best as I can describe them, modern samurai with rifles, shotguns and handguns. They didn’t count on luck — they trained, practiced and prevailed by constant repetition and careful preparation. Here are their stories, their fighting weapons and what they consider important from literally dozens of firefights. What you won’t be getting here are body counts or what it’s like to engage in a gunfight. These men are not about describing their shootings. But they’ve spent years training other cops and soldiers going in harm’s way on what works and how to survive and win. I’ve found their lessons and training are very similar and have relevance to a city cop on patrol, a citizen carrying lawfully concealed or a young Marine on his first combat deployment.
Police Officer III Scott Reitz (ret.),
LAPD SWAT/METRO
I first met Scotty just before the ’84 Los Angeles Olympics. I was a probationary recruit still in the Academy; Scott was a veteran team member in SWAT, where he spent 10 years of his police career. During his time on LAPD SWAT he participated in hundreds of SWAT callouts and got into several full-on gun battles. When Scott wasn’t working, he was training with other SWAT members, working as an instructor at Gunsite (Jeff Cooper’s firearms training facility in Arizona) or doing physical training. Later in his career, he was the primary LAPD SWAT and Metropolitan Division firearms instructor.
What I remember clearly about Scott Reitz was his incredible appetite for training. His marksmanship skills are exceptional with rifle, pistol, shotgun or sub-gun. If there’s ammo available, Scott will shoot it — but it’ll be done in a live-fire scenario or drill designed to increase skill, speed or accuracy. The neat thing about him is his knowledge as a trainer was available to all LAPD units, not just METRO or SWAT. He worked with every copper who asked, including probationary cops like me, dispensing life-saving tips and marksmanship techniques. Much later in my career, I had the honor and pleasure of working with him as a tactics and firearms trainer, where I saw his abilities as marksman and instructor close-up.
When not training, Scott is a physical fitness fanatic. He works out with the same intensity he has when he’s shooting. Fitness was always mentioned and stressed by him when he trained other LAPD officers. Fit cops shoot better, think more clearly and have the will, stamina and strength to survive and win. Scott Reitz is still training other cops, as well as civilians and military, in retirement. He’s an author and an internationally recognized instructor of law enforcement officers and military professionals.
Patrolman Bill Allard (ret.),
NYPD SOU, ESU
NY City Patrolman Bill Allard has been in more gunfights than any other policeman in NYPD history. He was one of the initial members of the NY SOU (Stake-Out Unit) in 1968 and left when the SOU was disbanded in 1973. After leaving the SOU, he continued working the streets of New York in ESU (Emergency Services Unit), Detective Investigations and Patrol, retiring in 1981. He still lives in NY and carries a handgun daily, usually a Kimber 1911 .45. Now 75, he’s finally enjoying retirement after a second career working as a firearms consultant and instructor.
Before, during and after his career as a cop, Bill was a fierce competitor in bull’s-eye. In 1982 he won the national civilian championship at Camp Perry, shooting the .22 and .45. Bill is adamant you must look at your front sight in a gunfight; his years of intensive bull’s-eye practice made focusing on the front sight part of his muscle memory, even under the stress of a shooting. The basics of bull’s-eye (intense focus on the front sight and absolute trigger control) were in his training regimen and carried over into deadly encounters. As the firearms instructor for the SOU, Bill mandated high marksmanship standards for anyone selected, and conducted frequent live-fire drills for the squad. He personally tested and chronographed the loads used by SOU for accuracy, velocity and terminal performance.
During the 5 years the NYPD SOU was active, SOU never lost an officer or a gunfight in dozens of armed confrontations.
SGM (Sergeant Major)Kyle Lamb (ret.),
US Army 1st SFOD-D
SGM Kyle Lamb has been at the very “tip of the spear” in Desert Storm, Somalia and Iraq. His 21 years in the US Army reads like a Hollywood character in a movie script: 82nd Airborne Paratrooper, communications specialist in a Special Forces A-Team during “Desert Storm” and 15 years as a Delta team member. SGM Lamb was one of several Delta Soldiers heavily engaged in the fighting in Mogadishu after the downing of the Super 61 helo. He deployed five times to Iraq during the 2nd Gulf War, planning and participating in literally hundreds of direct-action missions. His advice on surviving in combat is simple: “bottom-up planning, combat marksmanship, thinking outside the box and medical training.” Something that needs to be mentioned is Delta’s usual mission, unlike a Ranger or Marine combat unit, is accomplished by stealth, not confrontation. But if it comes to a firefight, massive, overwhelming, targeted violence by experienced operators will almost always win.
Kyle has had extensive experience with the H&K 416 and MP-5 as well as the Colt M4. He preferred the M4 on combat deployments. “The M4 is a lightweight system highly reliable when lubed. It also has less recoil and is lighter than most piston systems.”
SGM Kyle Lamb kept his shooting skills at peak level between deployments by competing in 3-gun events. He told me competition increased his proficiency and pointed to areas where he could focus his future training on. He has used his competitive shooting experiences, proven in combat, to train fellow Delta teammates. Now retired, Kyle Lamb still offers training through his own school. Kyle is heavily involved with training US Army units for combat and police officers in street survival. His insights into practical marksmanship, coupled with his extensive combat time, give soldiers, cops and the civilians he’s trained a critical advantage not found anywhere else.
Detective III John Helms (ret.) LAPD SWAT, SIS
In a department full of urban warriors, John Helms is a legend. His entire 35-plus years on the LAPD have been spent on the streets of Los Angeles. His time “on the job” includes 8 years in SWAT and over 20 years in SIS (Special Investigations Section), the LAPD’s go-to unit when dealing with the City of Angel’s most violent felons. John has been in numerous toe-to-toe gunfights as a SWAT cop and SIS detective; one shooting resulted in his being decorated with the Department’s Medal of Valor for heroic actions during a violent hostage rescue.
Not surprisingly, John likes the 1911 as a fighting pistol, but is also aware of its limitations. As much as he likes the 1911 (John told me shooting one was “like shaking hands with an old trusted friend”), he thinks it’s a training-intensive weapon and isn’t the best solution for many people. Proper employment during high-stress incidents mandates extensive, repetitive training. Detective Helms mentioned some shooters are all about the weapon — and that’s a serious mistake. To him, the handgun is a small part of fighting and winning. Helms cautioned me about picking a “favorite” tool (firearm): “you must train and excel with whatever you’re issued.” It is, after all, just a tool. The individual involved in the struggle is the irreplaceable item that wins the fight.
John started his police career with S&W revolvers and understands their role in defensive shootings well. In 1984, while assigned to SWAT, he partnered up with Larry Mudgett (also LAPD SWAT) and taught the November ’84 LAPD recruit class Cooper’s modern technique of the pistol. It was a groundbreaking experiment, resulting in later modifications on how the LAPD trained and qualified with handguns. During his time in SIS as both worker bee and field supervisor, Helms was the primary tactical firearms instructor, overseeing the development of arrest tactics and marksmanship techniques unique to the SIS. He had the same job in SWAT (tactical firearms instructor), and was instrumental in developing CQB and hostage rescue training for what many consider the finest (and oldest) SWAT unit in the US.
Lessons Learned
What I keyed on during my interviews with these four gentlemen were that the similar points and lessons stressed not only staying alive, but to win the gunfight. I don’t think there’s anything new here. What came across was applying marksmanship basics and training constantly works better than the latest gun or tactical technique. Detailed planning of your operation, training as a team and repetition of training wins firefights and street confrontations. For the citizen, meaningful practice, knowing the law, when and when not to engage and what you’ll do after the shooting are what’s important.
Training
Training is critical. Train hard and train often. Shoot as much as you can afford to, and shoot competitively. Even if it’s just shooting against your range partner, compete. Flawless performance under stress is what you’re after. Col. Charles Askins, who was no stranger to a gunfight, told me he experienced far more stress during the National Matches than in any gunfight. Competitive practice also gives you a yardstick to measure your performance by. Work on the basics; sight alignment and trigger control have won more gunfights than point shooting at sinister-looking targets or a roadhouse spin. The basics of marksmanship, though boring, apply in all shooting scenarios. Practice the basics over and over. Advanced drills and tactics come later after you’ve learned to shoot. Excellent marksmanship skills build confidence.
Work out as much as you shoot. Lift weights, run and be physical whenever you can. Being fit and strong will improve your marksmanship and give you the determination to fight and win. John Helms is a serious student of the martial arts. It’s another survival skill that compliments his marksmanship training. “Don’t have a preferred weapon. Learn to excel and win with whatever you have.” John emphasized this several times when I spoke with him. Be comfortable with whatever you bring to the fight; don’t fall into the “I must have my favorite 9mm or .45,” or whatever else you carry. The weapon is only a tool, whether it’s a pistol, shotgun or police baton. Be familiar with whatever you have available. Have a plan, train as a team and refine your training based on feedback from team members. Then train some more.
John Veit
Sep 22, 2014 @ 17:57:43
FYI, here are links to:
A short article containing excerpts from a ProArms podcast interview with Bob Stasch of the Chicago PD. Mr. Stasch reviewed the article, and approved of it as written. Bob Stash started with the Chicago PD in 1981, and he has been in 14 gunfights.
http://www.pointshooting.com/1astasch.htm
An e-mail note from an Officer + a link to a video of him in a shootout, plus some added info.
http://www.pointshooting.com/1akevin.htm
An article about a real time CQ gunfight in which one of the participants was shot and killed. The text plus pictures from a 2/9/09 New Smyrna Beach, Fl. robbery video, describe and show what happened in a real time life threat situation. Point Shooting and an Isosceles like grip was employed by the guard.
http://www.pointshooting.com/1arobber.htm
As to the 1911, this is a link to an article about it and its 2 design faults. It includes pics from a WWII training film about it not being a natural pointer. Because of that it must be cocked up some for each shot fired.
http://www.pointshooting.com/1a1911x.htm
Also, large caliber guns are harder to shoot accurately than lesser caliber guns, and regardless of the size or power of the bullet used and it’s stopping ability, it will have no affect unless it first hits the target. Here’s a link to an FBI article on its10 mm pistol which provides some interesting insights into the processes involved in testing and adoption of a firearm.
http://www.pointshooting.com/1a10mm.htm
Not trying to be contrary, just adding some pertinent information to the mix.
LikeLike
John Veit
Sep 26, 2014 @ 20:06:20
Here’s a link to a “new” FBI article on the justification for the FBI’s use of a 9mm.
Would like a link to the FBI URL for the doc in FDP form.
Could be one of those docs that are kept “indoors” for “secrecy” purposes, for which there is no “real Justification” for such classification, and which if realeased widely, could save lives of citizen handgun owners by providing them with information on which to base their purchasing of a gun for self defense.
Basically, it is a produced on the taxpayers dime, and should be available to the millions of handgun owners who paid for it, and whose lives could be saved based on their utiliizing and acting on its content.
http://soldiersystems.net/tag/fbi/
LikeLike
John M. Buol Jr.
Sep 28, 2014 @ 10:22:03
>> Not trying to be contrary, just adding some pertinent information to the mix.
This isn’t contrary at all. In fact, it just adds to the point of the article.
The problem is not about details such as sight vs. point shooting or the “best” grip/stance. It is about low enforced performance standards and the lack of skill progression.
Bob Stash has been with the Chicago PD since 1981, and he has been in 14 gunfights.
That’s a great record in anybody’s book.
When he began with the Chicago PD, qualifications were at 7, 15, and 25 yards, and mostly bullseye. A two handed Isosceles or Weaver stance was used. And there was no time pressure or combat shooting.
The problem isn’t really about the distances trained, targets or grip stance used. The real problem is there was/is no time pressure in qualification and no required skill progression. I’d wager accuracy standards were just as poor.
Hitting a large target, such as a human-sized target at typical fight range, can be done by any novice with point shooting. If there is no real time pressure or other stress during the shooting it will give the illusion of skilled shooting to novices.
When the top of the gun is at eye level, and the eye, front sight or muzzle, and the target are in line, you will hit what you are aiming at. He is a big fan of 6 inch paper plates. If he can hit them with regularity, he is certain that he can probably do that at combat distances. He also likes express sights.
This describes every practical competition shooter ever. The difference in skill is measured by who can get those hits the fastest.
He shoots about 300 rounds per month.
The most telling point here is he trains far beyond department minimum standards and does so on his own.
Regardless of his competition record, Officer Bob Stash applied the same principles as every good competition shooter. He was motivated to train beyond minimum standards and did so in a manner relevant to his purpose.
LikeLike