Two guys picked the wrong place to rob
Recently found footage of such an incident has surfaced. The video depicts a robbery in progress at a Duncanville store.
Apparently the gentleman in question used a Glock 23 and is an active IPSC (International Practical Shooting Confederation) shooter.
The perpetrator that went down in the shop was out of the fight immediately, shot in his chest. There was an exchange of gunfire between the shop owner and a criminal which was later found dead.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c69_1409727286
http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=86df0a88a0ff&start=90
Fight starts at 1:32
Firearm User Network 
Oct 11, 2014 @ 20:19:57
Below are links to a series of photos captured from the robbery video with explanation.
The first 2 photos show a robber jumping over a counter and landing on the other side. To his rear is a doorway in which a gun is seen at the right edge of the door. As the robber stands up he moves back some and up against shelves with merchandise on them. A gun is seen in the robbers right hand.
In photos 3 and 4, the gun at the edge of the door is moved out to track the robber’s movement and flame is seen coming out from the gun and it points at the robber. The gun is held in a Isso like grip and about chest high, and you can see the vest worn by the shooter. It is clear that the shooter is not using the sights.
The 4 photo action sequence takes less than 2 seconds.
The next photo is three seconds later and shows a gun being held in an Isso like grip.
35 seconds later, a person is shown checking on the fallen robber. Note the finger in the trigger guard.
A finding of the old but still good NYPD’s SOP 9, was that “65% of the Officers who had knowledge of impending danger, had their revolvers drawn and ready.”
“That is proper tactically for several reasons, the first being that holsters which are designed with the proper element of security in mind, do not lend themselves to quick draw. The old bromide, “Don’t draw your gun and point it at anyone unless you intend to shoot” is a tactical blunder.”
Here is a link to a series of photos with comments from a robbery attempt in Florida:
http://www.pointshooting.com/1arobber.htm
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Oct 12, 2014 @ 06:14:14
>> The gun is held in a Isso like grip and about chest high, and you can see the vest worn by the shooter. It is clear that the shooter is not using the sights.
Wow. You managed to interview this IPSC shooter in question and confirmed your assumption? Please post the transcript of your interview and the name of the shooter in question.
Or, are you making a wild guess to appease your bias?
The only clear, obvious portion of the video shows the IPSC shooter firing in a manner different than you describe.
Regardless of what he did/didn’t see or technique used, the important thing is the IPSC shooter responded skillfully, won his fight, and emerged unscathed.
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Oct 12, 2014 @ 08:00:34
It is clear to me that in the pic with the flames comming out from the gun that the shooter is squared to the target, and that the gun is in a two handed grip that looks much like an isso grip, and that the gun and sights are positioned above the bottom of the shooters vest, but also well below the line of sight of a shooter of the size shown in the picture, and who is seen in other frames of the video clip. Your edit/view/zoom feature can increase the size of the pic if needed.
As to my bias, for years and years, I have been looking forward to and am open to receiving a video or pics of sight shooting being used effectively in a CQ life threat situation, and have a page on my web site decicated to the posting of such.
If you or anyone has pics or a video of SS being used effectively in a CQ life threat situation, please let me know. Since Sight Shooting has been taught for use in such situations for over 100 years, one would think there would be 100s if not 1000s of pics/ideos of that. Here is a link to that page which has been and is awaiting input/s. http://www.pointshooting.com/1april1.htm
It also is obvious that the shooter won the confrontation, as the target falls to the ground and is not seen moving after that.
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Oct 13, 2014 @ 08:38:51
>> … the gun and sights are positioned above the bottom of the shooters vest, but also well below the line of sight of a shooter
The only clear view of the IPSC shooter in action begins at 1:44 (105 seconds) where he is obviously firing from a two-hand, eye-level position.
http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=86df0a88a0ff&start=105
>> If you or anyone has pics or a video of SS being used effectively
I’d point to every member of the Army Reserve Marksmanship Program that saw combat in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past decade, but there weren’t cameras rolling in a war zone to record what happened. All of them reported being pleased their skillful shooting tested and proven in competition proved useful, as did the personnel they deployed with. Not a single one felt this experience had any negative influence.
The only people claiming this doesn’t work are those that never acquired the same level of skill in the first place.
Yes, you’ll likely find more footage of the results of lower skilled responses because most gun carriers are lower skilled. Military, police and CCW qualification can be passed at very low skill levels and apply no stress. Outside of competition or better training, a fight is the very first stress shoot most people are exposed to, thus the poor results.
You’re confusing the response of minimally-trained, low skill, untested personnel and assuming this is how all humans are required to react in all situations, ignoring the positive effects of higher level training.
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Oct 14, 2014 @ 16:29:08
Here are links to or photos of the second shooting during the attempted robbery.
At 19:48:16 CAM14 shows one of the robbers running back down an aisle.
A gun can be seen in the robber’s right hand.
The robber is shot and begins to fall.
As he falls he discharges his gun.
He continues falling to the floor.
At 19:48:17 he hits a display case at the end of the aisle as he falls.
……….
At 19:48:16 CAM 32 shows a shooter with a pistol in an isso lke grip.
The gun is moved to the right and points down range.
At 19:48:17 the gun is moved more to the right.
The gun is then seen to buck up with firing and the person to the right flinches back and away.
The gun then continues to track a bit to the right and the CAM 32 clip ends.
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Oct 14, 2014 @ 19:44:08
The IPSC shooter in this video clip shoots in a manner similar to the approach used by most reasonably-skilled IPSC/USPSA/IDPA shooters I’ve seen at matches. He moved and shot quickly, and hit what he shot at.
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Oct 14, 2014 @ 20:43:05
Here’s the link/photo of the 4th pic of the sequence showing the shooter.
The gun then continues to track a bit to the right and the CAM 32 clip ends.
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Oct 15, 2014 @ 08:12:53
I wasn’t at this incident, have not interviewed this IPSC shooter or anyone else involved, and won’t presume to know exactly what he did/didn’t see or do beyond the fact he successfully responded and won his fight.
Here is the image from the video John Veit believes proves this IPSC shooter didn’t use his sights for an aimed shot:
I’ll leave it here and let others judge for themselves.
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Oct 15, 2014 @ 10:32:56
It was clear and obious to me that the shooter in the second shooting had his pistol in his line of sight and he may or may not have used the sights or FSP. As such, a comment was not needed.
In the first shooting, I added a comment as the pic did not clearly show the shooter. The gun was in an isso like grip and being held about chest high as confirmed by the bottom of the shooter’s vest, and as such the sights would not be in the shooters line of sight.
Here is that pic: http://www.pointshooting.com/r4b.jpg
I like videos of shooting as they do not have agendas, take sides, or use inflamatory or value laden words. They just show what happens, and they do it frame by frame.
Here is a link to an article on the use of car cams as a key to reduciing Police casualties that I had on my site several years ago. Guess I should add it back.
http://www.pointshooting.com/1acarcam.htm
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Oct 15, 2014 @ 12:31:18
>> In the first shooting… The gun was in an isso like grip and being held about chest high as confirmed by the bottom of the shooter’s vest, and as such the sights would not be in the shooters line of sight.
The IPSC shooter in the vest was firing from an elevated position higher than his target (notice the stairs?), requiring him to aim downward as his line of sight was lowered.
You are wrongly assuming this means he couldn’t see his sights as his pistol appears at chest level, however, this was necessitated while shooting downward at a lower target.
Try aiming at something two or three stairs below you. Notice this puts your pistol at chest level even though you can maintain line of sight through the sights while aimed in.
There is NOTHING in this entire video or the captured still images that proves this IPSC shooter couldn’t or didn’t use his sights for any of his fired shots.
For close, fast shooting, some competition action shooters use a target focus and this IPSC shooter may have done that. Until a reliable report of this incident surfaces we’re just guessing, but it is wrong to claim that he couldn’t see or use his sights based on this video.
My point of posting this was to show a competition shooter performing well in a real world situation. This IPSC shooter handled himself in his fight the same way I’ve seen every good action/practical shooting competitor handle themselves in a match and it won the day.
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