“Not long ago, I supervised a standoff situation where our officers were placed in positions to engage a dangerous suspect. Several officers were armed with M4s. Bystanders were thickly mixed-in! Range to suspect was between 10 and 30m. Happily, our situation was resolved without our officers having to shoot.
As a precaution, I asked all officers to report, with their red-dot-equipped M4s, to the range the following week. I set-up a situation with parer targets that exactly duplicated the situation with which were confronted a week earlier.
Given generous time, stable, braced firing positions, and stationary targets, not one of our officers was able to deliver required shots, even after several attempts! When asked about sight settings and zeros, most officers were not prepared to answer definitively. Some didn’t even understand the question! An examination of the M4s present revealed that, in most cases, the red dot and the back-up iron sights did not agree. Some were not even close!”
– http://www.ammoland.com/modern-sporting-rifle-zeros-or-lack-of/
This episode echoes many similar episodes I’ve experienced in the military as well. It isn’t unusual to find personnel in an instructor capacity (drill sergeants, etc.) just as confused.
You know a demographic in the gun world that intimately understands this and doesn’t have this problem? High Power competitors. Smallbore competitors. Pretty much any competitor in any rifle shooting discipline requiring a degree of precision will have a handle on this. It’s the reason such events were created in the first place.
I use this episode specifically because it comes by way of John Farnam, a “name” instructor of the Modern Technique camp that has poo-pooed competitive shooting in the past.
We’re sometimes warned about the “dangers” of competition, even though there is not a single documented incident where competition shooting experience ever caused a problem.
Competitive shooters possess a commodity concerning firearms skill that is rare among public-sector personnel: GAS. It’s a guarantee that a competitive shooter, someone making an effort to obtain improved scores and achieving that result, really does Give A Shit about their skill because they’re motivated to spend free time and money doing it. Hell, they do it for fun!
I worked ranges for over 30,000 deploying military personnel from 2003-2009. My peers were involved in range activity for nearly every service personnel deploying through the Department of Defense during that time. There was not a single problem or concern caused by someone arriving having prior competition experience. Not one.
Personnel having competitive experience are routinely better performers and more knowledgeable than their peers lacking such experience. They had the same tactical/military/police training as everyone else in the unit but performed better by having a heightened capability developed via competitive experience. The same is true concerning physical fitness and those pursuing other sports. Amazingly enough, competitive runners have better run times during unit fitness tests and competitive lifters are notably stronger.
This improved capability happens when one genuinely does Give A Shit and does something beyond required, minimum qualifications and standards. In contrast, every person requiring remedial training was someone lacking competition shooting experience.
Published regulation backs this up. There are many references in military and police policy describing competition shooting as beneficial. There is not a single published regulation, order, doctrine, or policy in any military or police organization suggesting competition shooting is bad or harmful with personnel recommended or ordered to avoid it. None. Not one. Plenty of examples advocating its use as beneficial, but not one saying otherwise.
SR25MK4
Oct 26, 2016 @ 09:18:25
A good read. The ‘Lie’ likely stems from the forms of very static, rigidly structured practices of post-WWll ‘target shooting’ techniques being taught, and used for ‘qualification’, by most LE Orgs. AND Depts. That training was almost completely divorced from any reality of actual CQB shooting.
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John M. Buol Jr.
Oct 26, 2016 @ 11:01:37
Possibly. Applegate’s “House of Horrors” during that time was an attempt to show that “standard” pistol training didn’t adequately prepare personnel. Of course, this “standard” training was an introduction to slow-fire bullseye with zero introduction to gunhandling or shooting at speed and novice shooting was scored as passing.
Note that the 500 test subjects in Applegate’s unverified test were newly taught service personnel, not experienced competitors or other skilled shooters. It would be interesting to take a group of skilled practical shooting competitors through such a course and compare the results.
My point is that there are often claims made against competitive shooting without any evidence of it causing problems. I’m still waiting to find a single, concrete example.
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SR25MK4
Oct 26, 2016 @ 16:32:26
Not from me. The FUNDAMENTALS still count. In fact; here is my Bullseye Pistol Shooting Site: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BULLSEYESHOOTERS/info
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John M. Buol Jr.
Oct 26, 2016 @ 17:13:26
Thanks! I just joined.
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B.P.M.
Oct 26, 2016 @ 17:45:32
If they were not able to hit a life size target at 30m, I’m sure all those officers spent most of their twice per year training time on some ill conceived gun-kata stupidity. They should have been sent to a 4H air rifle club where a 14 year old girl could school them.
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SR25MK4
Oct 26, 2016 @ 17:59:48
YOU are Most WELCOME!
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John M. Buol Jr.
Oct 26, 2016 @ 18:22:06
Good points. Thanks B.P.M.!
>> If they were not able to hit a life size target at 30m,
I’m all for using more-likely, closer distances in qualification as long as more-likely, faster time frames are enforced. The problem with using realistic distances in qualifications is that realistic time frames are rarely enforced.
https://firearmusernetwork.com/aacog-leo-pistol-qualification/
A human can leisurely walk about seven yards in three seconds, and can sprint that distance from a dead stop in half that. A human can respond to a stimulus and cease an action in about a half second. A realistic but minimum time frame for armed personnel should be capable of producing a handgun from the normal mode of carry and landing three center-chest hits at seven yards in under three seconds. That’s at least getting close to the sort of speed of action needed.
You know a demographic that can greatly exceed these time frames and does so routinely? Competitive shooters.
>> I’m sure all those officers spent most of their twice per year training time on some ill conceived gun-kata stupidity.
Twice per year? For some departments, this would be very generous. It certainly is for the majority of military personnel.
>> They should have been sent to a 4H air rifle club where a 14 year old girl could school them.
Truth!
https://firearmusernetwork.com/tactical-shooters-get-schooled-by-teenage-girls/
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